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About INTERVIEW WITH STEF Source OOR Issue/date 02/99, No 3 Author ERIK VAN DEN BERG translated and submitted by TEDDY

ZITA SWOON 'I bet you that many man stealthily would like to wear their wives knickers' With sold-out Dutch tours finished and ahead of him gets Stef Kamil Carlens' current band ,Zita Swoon, close to the popularity of his former band dEUS. "Everyone in Antwerp has found their place now." And Carlens himself? "Nowadays I'm only happy. Every day." Portrait of a restless allesdoener (Teddy: -> couldn't find a translation for that). By Erik van den Berg / photography by Niels van Iperen With trouble he could find a free afternoon, but actually he didn't had any time for interviews in Januari. Stef Kamil Carlens is, and let's not forget that, Antwerpenaar (=resident of Antwerp) en child of the 90's. So? So he is busy. Like all the Antwerp children of the 90's are busy. They make music (all kinds of), act, paint, photograph, film, design, produce and organize. Playing in one band? Get real. Three is the minimum. We know that story by now. So in Januari 1999 you talk with the 27 year old Carlens not only about music, but also about clothes, dance, theater, videoclips and art in general. Because 'everything is art.' In Januari 1999, between the busy attended tours for promotion of the latest Zita Swoon-album I Paint Pictures On A Wedding Dress, Carlens puts the finishing touches ('in one week it has to be ready') to the musical play Plage Tattoo/Circumstances, that will go in premiere in June on the Holland Festival. They've been asked to do it. What it exactly will be? 'A play with 6 adults and one child. Three musicians of Zita Swoon, two dancers and one actor. And his daughter. It is about relations between people. A lot of dance in music is in it. I can't get more specific.' When we walk from his house to the neighbouring café of the Zuiderpershuis in south-Antwerp, contrasts Carlens' with his long blind hair and outstanding orange-red attire against the grey streetscape. 'No no, this is my Thorgal-costume', he smiles when we say that he looks a bit like a Messiah. 'Bit if you grow your hair long and wear it a bit easy like this, then you look like Jesus too, right?' In the café he attracts attention. A few seconds long the present people -locals ánd day trippers, it is Sundayafternoon- gaze at the colorful figure in the doorway. You see them thinkking: is that now Jesus or Maria? Two girls bend giggling towards eachother. We find a free table in the middle of the fiercely lighted establishment. Uneasy scene. Note: journalist and photographer feel awkward. Artist not. Since stories about the Antwerp music-scene always start an the 90's, we decide to ask Carlens about his first musical memories. 'Queen' sounds it resolute. 'The first I heard. News Of The World, with the big hits We Will Rock You and We Are The Champions. But also very beautiful songs, like All Dead. And one of my favorite songs of all time, My Melancholy Blues. Only piano, very jazzy. Very beautiful.' Do you come from a musical family? 'No. My father likes music, but only classical. My uncle plays a bit amateur-guitar; he gave my once my second guitar. No, I didn't get in touch with pop-music via my parents, on the contrary.' Where did you grew up? 'In Antwerp. I always lived here. Although I'm ready now to live somewhere else. Yes, that is more difficult with rehearsing, because we all live here in the neighbourhood. But we aren't married to eachother, right? Where I would want to live? France maybe. Everytime when I have a quietly time I go there. But maybe it will be Gent.' What did you want to become as a kid? 'Veterinarian or clown. And I did became a bit of a clown I think (smiles). At first I studied humanities, mostly languages. After that drawing and painting. But I never consciously choose for something. That I finally became a musician, was purely a coincidence. Actually, everything is a coincidence till so far. DEUS too, at that time. I bought a guitar, a very bad one, for thousand franc. Not long after that I met people who also made music. And Tom (Barman) needed a guitarist for his band… If I look at what I do now, there's still a lot of fortuity in it. My career-course , the writing of songs, everything go's unconscious.' Funny you say that. A lot of people find that Zita Swoon's music sounds very prepared. Beautiful, but prepared. I remember me a recent interview with Soulwax; they arrange their music under pop and the music of dEUS and Zita Swoon under art. 'I think we make normal songs too. Some are more sound-projects than others, but they remain songs. I easily could perform them with only an acoustic guitar. No, we don't make art. Besides, I find that a difficult word. Because where is the boundary between art and normal human needs of expression?' I think where you dó think conscious about, is your image. 'Yes, but the music comes first. When we play the instruments have to be OK and everyone has to know the repertoire. And then I start thinking about decoration, scenery or clothes.' You make a lot of your clothes yourself, right? 'Yes, I'm only not very good in it yet. I do it because I don't trust anybody else. I let a few times others make some things, but it never turned out the way I wanted it to be.' You wear women's clothes sometimes too. 'Yes, sometimes I like it to…. But I don't want to be a girl, or something. I just want to look more womanly sometimes.' Where does that come from? 'Ah, I don't know. There are so many artists who do that, right? When you're on a stage it is maybe a bit easier then when you work for a bank, but I think that a lot of men would want it, deep in their hearts. I bet you that many man stealthily would like to wear their wives knickers. Look, I do it with pleasure, but not always. I do it for myself, because I find it beautiful. And if I would carry out something with it, it would be a protest against macho-ism, and the differnce between men and women. Women always have to be alluring, soft, beautiful and neat, and men have to be brutish… That is often like that, right? Walk into a clothes-store and see what they sell for men. No color or fantasy is in it. Ah, I always liked to do it.' Did you never had trouble with it? 'You mean that people say: hey Janet (Teddy: -> another Belgium expression??), shall I hit you on the face? No. And I don't care if they laugh about it. I already do it so long. I will never react on it too. But I don't go on stage like a real woman. It's always a bit in between it.' You often put the character Josie in your songs. 'Yea, I've just written a song with Josie in it. But it is continually some one else. I tried it with Jintro too, but that didn't work out, because that name is too specific. See, you write about someone so you have to use a name. You could use a different name each time, but I like using the same name.' Where do those characters come from? Do you make them up or do they really exist? 'Everything is based on my life. But it all stays vague. I can't write about getting up in the morning, putting on my socks and going to the baker. They are all combinations of experiences and people, but then very vague and poetic.' Does other people's music inspires you? 'Yes, but I never listen professional to records, I listen as a fan. Sometimes I pluck to analyse a song. I search for stories, for poetry. But very heavy musical efforts can fascinate me too. I think: How do they do that!? But mostly I look in music for inspiration for my own life. More than the reverse.' What do you mean with that? 'I look for ideas to live. Wisdom, simple remarks… especially moral. It gives me energy. Art -and it doesn't matter if it's music, painting or stageplay is- gives me energy. Desire to live. But I'm not someone who has to be inspired for his music. I catch a bit of everything actually. I'm not looking around like: hey, what I see now, I can write a song. It doesn't work that literally. Although I admire artists who are good in describibg situations. Just being very realistic and still write a good song. Very good.' Are you a romanticist? 'Sometimes. Sometimes I'm very realistic and sombre, sometimes very romantic and merry.' Which one of those two states of mind are most inspiring? 'You know, these days I only have one state of mind: I am always happy. In former days I could be very melancholic and angry, very extreme. Now never anymore. I'm happy every day. And never sad.' How did that happen? 'I don't know. I'm married. Well no, not married, but I am very long together with my girl. That has something to do with it. My life is very organised nowadays. I always work and never get bored anymore. I used to be bored a lot. And I don't smoke and drink anymore. And I don't take drugs anymore. I used too, yes. A bit. Let me say it like this: I tried it, but I can't function with that. Dope, not eating well, that doesn't work. I quitted drugs consciousely. I like to dance and to do more with my voice. That go's better when I'm healthy. My choice is now: let's go! Not for succes, but for the work. Being creative. I want to do so much. Thankfully I have the possibilities now too.' Didn't you had that in your dEUS-period? 'Less. That's why I quitted with it. I think it was the right choice. Certainly for me, for my life. But musical-wise I would like to do something with them sometime. That will certainly happen.' Do you secretly see yourself a bit as a dEUS-member? 'No, but we still see eachother a lot. Recently Tom played live with us two times. Very pleasant. He put immediately new lyrics in our songs (smiles)… No, in dEUS I sometimes didn't know it anymore. I often felt sad and black. That had mostly to do with myself. Also with other things, but I don't want to expatiate on that. That is over. And everything go's ok now, with both bands. Everything passes easier. No more people who counteract. Rudy (Trouvé, ex-dEUS-guitarist) is doing better now too. He does insanely many things.' It seems that now finally everyone has found their definitive place. 'Yes. And I'm happy that that happened.The past years were hectic, but also very instructive.' Is Zita Swoon your band? 'Like the new record is…. That is my band I think. I make a difference (Teddy: -> Stef says: Ik weeg wel door. I don't know a proper translation for it). But that's only those 12 songs. And producers have the tendency to find one person more important then the rest of the group. No, the real, daily life of the band looks very different. Next time we will record our album ourselves, together with our live-mixer. We learned a lot. We now know that it doesn't work when you all at once, in the latest phase of the creative process, let an outsider involve who has to finish it all. By bands like Garbage that is possible maybe, but not for us. We work much more organic. We find more things important then the end-product. The life around it, for instance.' But you said that that your life only exists of working momentary. 'Yes, I want a lot in the same time. I'm very restless. That is complicated sometimes. I will stop with that someday, but now not yet.' Restlessness often go's with a certain kind of nonchalance. It stands in the way of perfectionism. 'Yes. It doesn't go together with me too. Restlessness only go's together with doing very much. But everything is possible with a bit of organizing. Organization and collaboration. I know I can only rise above myself by working with others. If you make something completely on your own… Sure, there people who can do that. Prince for example. But he is totally surrounded by people who take the work out of his hands. He only has to make music. Unfortunately is cooperating not always easy; people have ego's and do not want to discuss always.' Let's talk about ambition. 'The only thing I want, is doing my work well. Like I look against it now, I want to do the rest of my life doing what I do now: searching. In everything. Because I get the most pleasure about something that isn't finished yet. That is like that with music, painting, making clothes, writing songs, theater, videoclips… I find the realization of a cd more interesting than the end-product. Besides: when an album is finished, everyone has to say something about it. I experience that as an intensely annoying period. In our rehearsal-room or our studio no one comes and gives his opinion.' But do you really feel strong enough to say: this is my work and nobody touches it anymore? 'Well, it's never exactly like how I want it. On our new cd we worked with a producer, Malcolm Burn, too. And so we were having always a compromise between a few men. Malcolm said: you have to see a song like a snapshot. We found that a wrong attitude. Ok, it is a bit true, but still it is frustrating to hear that from a producer. There's something in it like: it is not good yet, but let's use it anyway.' It didn't really hit off with that producer, right? 'No.' Why did you still finish your cd with him? 'Allez, it's not that simple. We where in New Orleans, thousands of miles from home, a lot of money was spent to get us there and we rented a house for two months. Than you can't just say: sorry guys, I quit.' But you wanted that actually. 'Ah, I thought: I'll make so many records. And our cd didn't become bad, right? Eventually we were able to polish it at home: changing songs, we used demo-versions, recorded new things. Malcolm has actually produced only half of the record.' Why did you choose him in the first place? 'Because of his record of service. He participated in some fantastic albums. I don't want to make Malcolm black, he still is a good producer. And sometimes he was a swell fellow. But sometimes he was just terribly wrong. Look, I have no problems when a producer demands things and now and then gets angry, but there are borders.' So you really had some quarrels? 'More restrained quarrels, actually. We didn't always gave our opinion, because that didn't always work. But sometimes there was a fight, yeah. I didn't had a good time there, let I put it that way. The city herself was apart from that beautiful. It was noce to be there for a while. And I got to know someone who had to go to Chigaco for a few weeks, so I could take care of his dogs. Malcolm had a dog too and the owner of the house also. A rottweiler. So I had four dogs! Fantastic!' You have something with dogs, right? Zita Swoon's former name was Moondog Jr. 'Yes. I love dogs. In our family we always had dogs. My uncle is a dog-trainer. Dogs belong to me as the most fascinating and most inspiring creatures on earth. Dogs and women.' (smiles) But you only have one of each. 'Yes. But you don't have to have them to look at, right?.'

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